Foshan Ip Man Tong Opening
News, December 31st, 2007
Courtesy of TiFei via the forums, Part 1:
For many more videos of wing chun in China, check out the thread.
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News, December 31st, 2007
Courtesy of TiFei via the forums, Part 1:
For many more videos of wing chun in China, check out the thread.
Gary Lam Wing Chun Documentary Uncut Unedited »
Why do people give a shit about stuff like this? It’s like some religious pilgrimage! One more example of the silliness of WCK people.
It’s human nature. People go to Gracie camp. They go on Geek cruises or auto shows. They go to Graceland! For some, there is a void that can only be filled with community hobbies or cultural festivals. Others play X-Box live or go to work for the government…
I will soon be selling Yip Man’s chamber pot on EBay . . .
LOL @ Terence!
Not sure I follow the ‘religious’ type, but IMO many people went to the opening out of respect. I know, wierd really as Lee Shing was never promoted by the Ip Family (He’s not even mentioned in the Hall!) but my Sihing and I felt that it was only right that we attend. Haven’t been back yet, and have no idea how the ‘Tong’ looks now.
IMHHHO, people need not travel to China to learn Martial Arts as the western world may have received most, if not all of it during the Cultural Revolution. Research and exchange, however, is always worth a holiday…
Out of respect? LOL! Yip was just some guy — and by most accounts a deeply flawed human being — who reluctantly taught WCK to earn a living. He should be honored or revered forthat? You do know that he despised westerners like you, and thought they should not be taught WCK, right? He is probably turning over in his grave from the thought of westerners despoiling his “Tong”!
Traditional Chinese Martial Arts loves its hero-worship. Yip Man, Lee Shing, etc.
I feel quite lucky that it was Lee Shing who came to the UK after reading that Terence! Ofcourse I have read that Ip Man didn’t like westerners, but I’ve also heard that it was more to do with his frustrations with the English language.
As for the Hero Worship, I’ve never heard Lee Shing be called a hero by anyone inside the family, and his Wife and children would never talk of him that way. He was a good man, and a humble Sifu. Something that resembles ‘heroic deeds’ is written on his funeral photo though, so I do understand what you’re saying.
Without our western influence, maybe there really wouldn’t be a Wing Chun at all and people like Lee Shing and Ip Man both had students who would later go on to teach the westerner.
Are you saying that they were also wrong?
What I am saying is: do you also go on pilgrimages to your tennis or golf pros home? Do you visit where they were born? Hang pictures of them in your homes? Etc. Why not? Don’t you want to show them “respect”?
Yip, Lee, etc. were just like golf or tennis pros, not religious figures. They had some skills that others paid them to teach. Let’s keep it in that perspective.
I can see what you mean Terence, but I think we have a diferent idea about what a Sifu is IMO. For one, Lee Shing never charged his students to learn, according to his wife and family. He never needed to as he was a successful business man. He taught for the love of teaching.
Secondly, comparing a Traditional Martial Arts Sifu with a Pro Tennis Coach is a little narrow minded. You see, if I was to learn how to play Tennis from Tim Henman (well, he is a Brit!) do you think I will also have access to his family and personal life, as I did with my Sifu? Will Tims wife make me dinner? Will his family ‘take me in’? I don’t think so. You pay for a sports coach, learn for an hour and leave. A Sifu will sometimes treat you as a ’son’, not a paying customer.
So I’m sorry I can’t agree with your perspective, as a student practising Martial Arts for sport is not the same as a student who is practising as a way of life or with a view to becoming a Sifu himself one day. What was that saying? ‘A Sifu who teaches a student is not the same as a Sifu who teaches a Sifu’.
Basically, IMO a sports coach may not make the same emotional impact on a student as a Sifu would which is why the pilgrimages and remembrance pictures exist. All of which have nothing at all to do with Religion.
The reason there is that emotional impact, that “family” connection you talk about, is what I am talking about. That traditional mindset with its the reverance of ancestors, the authority-based view, the backward looking perspective, etc. — all the stuff which makes people want to make pilgrimages and that is lacking (and for very good reason as it doesn’t promote performance) in sports or other performance-based activities — is what is behind that reason. That same mindset is part of most religions.
That mindset is not wing chun, it is not part of the art. It exists outside the art. And it is bullshit. It is part of the role-playing aspect of TMAs.
BTW, you obviously haven’t been involved in sports. I’ve had many coaches (and I know many others with similar experiences) that treated me, and still consider me, like a member of their family or at least very good friends. People who share passionate interests and have long, intimate exposures often develop these relationships. They are not unique to TCMA. I have some ex-coaches that I would drop everything if they needed something. But as I don’t know and never met who coached them, I wouldn’t give their coach squat — let alone travel to China to “honor” them.
What you did going to Yip’s Tong is something entirely different. You never met Yip, studied with Yip, were friends with Yip, etc. Yip would hate your guts. Yet you go all the way to China (the expense, the time, etc.) to “honor” him because you bought into the whole TCMA mindset.
FWIW, Yip didn’t teach for friendship, he taught for money (or to repay obligations), just like pro tennis coaches.
Terence still hasn’t admitted his many pilgrimages to Graceland (the sideburns are a clear give away…)
For me, were I ever to go to such a WCK event, it would be to meet with others who were going; and excuse to gather and exchange, which is likely as much a reason for honoring the deceased as anything in any culture.
Okay Terence, point taken! I like the fact that you can talk of your Sports Coaches in the same way I would refer to my Sifu. There is a difference however to a Sports Coach who acts as a mentor and one who does not. I got the impression that you were talking of Ip Man and Lee Shing with the latter in mind.
Glad to see you here too Rene! As you mentioned it I thought I might tell you that, from the many I met, most guys at Ip Man Tong were not too interested in exchange. We had long chats with some of Moy Yats eldest in our hotel though and Ti Lung was very interested in us!
To clarify one thing for you also Terence, I have never ‘bought’ my way into your so-called TCMA Mindset! I feel that I have invested my time and efforts well. I only learnt what I was ‘given’.