Chi Sao and the Art of Conversation
John Crescione, October 24th, 2007
There is no Wing Chun without chi sao. Simultaneous attack and defense is not Wing Chun. Trapping is not sensitivity. Sticky hands, sticking hands and stick hands are all translated as chi sao but if you analyze the 3 terms, you get 3 different definitions. Sticky and sticking denote qualities of hand sensitivity while stick hands is a more generic term for what you are doing. Sticky denotes an attachment and detachment physically and metaphorically, Sticking implies a permanence-even into a bad position for you. All of hand training up to this point is trying to get you to learn where the hands are in relation to the front of the body and the centerlines. Are your hands too high, too low, too left or right, too heavy or light in relation to your opponent’s hand, your opponent and your mutual centerline’s?
Everything, all the training is a form chi sao. From no contact to contact; from lost position to recapturing contact and the center. Chi sao training with a partner attempts to train the practitioner to “listen” to what the opponent is saying in their hands and answer with the appropriate response. The response is or can be multi level-CAPTURE THE CENTER, DEFEND THE CENTER and/or ATTACK THE CENTER.
When you Chi sao with someone, you are having, or trying to have a conversation with them and their hands. Are you having a lighthearted conversation with a friend? Are they argumentative? Are they lecturing you? Are you talking down to them? Are both of you having your own conversation? Are you both just asking questions to each other? Do you understand the conversation? Is it the same language?
Each type of conversation teaches the player something if they are listening with their hands. And sometimes it’s okay to argue, (break the centerline) shout (telegraph a move) , lecture (can’t get a hit in at all) or talk pig Latin (use other styles hands or sloppy hands within the game of chi sao) to the opponent sometimes.
The training exercises such as Pak Sao and Lop Dar teach you how to have a conversation, to respond to a question with an answer (at first usually the politically correct one) , even if the answer is in the form of a question-as long as it applies to the conversation.
If “Pak Sao” is an answer to a straight punch (the question) is it the best answer? How was the question (punch) asked? Fast? Hard? In a straight line? Uppercut? Hook? Is the Pak Sao (the answer) used in the right context? Straight forward, snappy, pushing, inward, downward or slapping? Each answer whether technically correct or incorrect leads the conversation (the exchange of technique) in a certain direction. If the grammar of the conversation is incorrect i.e., run on sentences, improper punctuation, capitals in the wrong place etc., the chi sao will be sloppy, wild and unbalanced-usually with both players doing poorly. They may be hitting each other but they are getting hit also. This is not good. How do you develop the art of conversation, how to listen well and how do you become the captain of the debate team?
SIU LIM TAO chi sao teaches-
- but doan jiang, the immovable elbow (the depth of the subject matter or the heart matter.)
- chor kiu, the sinking bridge, wrong bridge or collapsed bridge and fei jiang, flying elbow (not understanding the subject matter or
- experimenting to see if the opponent understands the subject matter.)
- jung seen, centerline (subject matter)
- oi/noi moon, gate theory (defining and staying within the subject matter)
- poon sao/kiu, rolling hands/bridges (how to put sentences together
- luk sao jik chung (lost hand, straight punch) basic grammar and sentence structure
- phon sao (trapping hands) having a conversation
Everything is going to revolve around the centerline, what the conversation is going to be about- (hitting the center) , making a point in the conversation (SIU LIM TAO chi sao should be a conversation, not an argument, lecture or discussion.) First the conversation is with a parent and child ,then child to child. Sentence structure, questions, statements and answer formation are learned at this level.
CHUM KIU Chi Sao teaches-
- using the horse (learning to discuss ) to shift around the contact point (what you’re listening to)
- using the horse to shift the contact point (changing the subject or slant of the conversation)
- training the horse to feel through the contact point
- answering questions from different points of view (angles)
- how to follow the conversation
- how to follow a line of thought
BIU JEE
- elevate (deepen) the level of the conversation
- how to interrupt the conversation
- coming in and being able to listen on the middle of a conversation
- how to argue safely
- how to talk your way out of a bad situation
MUK YAN JONG
- how to master a debate
- how to shout and whisper
- lying effectively
- steering the conversation
- baiting the conversation
Everyone has some of these qualities (abilities) already in their hands. They come out naturally in chi sao. The precaution should be to not train those natural qualities more than the others do because you’re already good at them or they come easier to you. You will never become a good or well rounded conversationalist-only good at what you can already do naturally. Training them does polish them, but you never get out of an advanced Siu Lim Tao level chi sao regardless of what level you are training at. And against a true conversationalist-you will lose.
Food for thought…
- if you can only hit with speed-you are not that good.
- if you can only hit with power-you are not that good.
- if you can only hit with 1 technique -you are not that good.
- if you can only hit with tricks-you are not that good.
- If you can hit with all of the above, you are good- but only at that technique. However, if you can do all those things, all the time, in any given situation then you can have a discussion on that particular subject.
Therefore, the more subjects you know about and are skilled in you can debate and contribute ideas, not just stay in the conversation and answer a question every now and then.
Up to this point, we have not mentioned the style, tone, inflection, punctuation or speed of the chi sao. All those have to be taken into consideration with the opponent. Nor have we examined the following-are they speaking the same language? Are they speaking politically correct or incorrect. Are they speaking in slang, rap, old English, informally? With or without an accent?
CHI SAO HAND TRAINING
Do you train Wing Chun as a fighting technique or as a feeling technique? Do you train sensitivity for feeling or fighting? Do you train your feeling as a fighting technique or train your fighting for feeling technique?
DAN CHI SAO
- teaches that the center is a sphere, not a vertical, flat or horizontal plane
- the contact point is to be maintained at that level, felt and manipulated – beginning questions and answers with sustained contact ****
to maintain contact and good position, inside and out, up or down while in motion - trains the ability to create one half of a dynamic sphere that can be defended with tan/bong/fook and its branches-palm strike, jut sao and jik chung
- trains the ability to enter and close the opposite gate -trains jik chung and jut sao and the proper line of attack -trains the proper interrupt response
- trains to open, close and run around the center **** Up until contact/sensitivity training all the technique training has been
singular questions and answers with momentary contact and in only one plane and direction
SEUNG CHI SAO-DOUBLE STICKING HANDS
defines forward and rear gates as a dynamic sphere
participating within the dynamic sphere
feeling the forward and rear gates
independent and coordinated hand motion with and without the horse
- Poon Sao- (rolling) conversation, an exchange of ideas with no dominant point of view, direction or intent
- Luk Sao Jik Chung- (finding the holes) discussion specific exchange to get a certain idea or point of view across.
- Phon sao- (filling the holes) specific questions and answers within the discussion
Under ideal circumstances between two expert players, the only thing that should happen is a conversation containing 2 or 3 rolls and then walking away. That is if the intent is a friendly one or to see what the other person has. If you both can’t find a hole in 2 or 3 rolls, then both of you should walk away. Because a) there weren’t any and to attempt to make one would invite disaster or b) neither of you know what your doing.
Understand that rolling (at Siu Lim Tao level) is about holding the mutual reference point in any position-in/out, up/down. If the reference point moves there is an opening, wherever you contact-that is the reference point and the potential angle of attack from your opponent and you. So ideally you are looking and trying to put your hands in the best position while maintaining contact with the opponent’s. Then you will try to move around the contact point to a different angle if the first angle is blocked (in good position) .That is why you roll to a different position and one reason that you run (heun sao) .
Now the question becomes-do you train chi sao for fighting or chi sao for art?
The heun sao hand can change the attack angle or position of contact hand for 3 reasons. The question may be, why would you want to leave the contact hand when it can hit you? 1) You can’t get in from your initial position (contact point) , 2) when the opponent is pushing you out of or across the center (up or down count as well) . 3) To bait an attack You should never run just because you don’t like the position you’re in. This tells the opponent (if they’re paying attention) that there is a hole in your defensive- in your mind, technique and emotionally/spiritually..
The proper way to run-
- do not stick completely on the bridge (some versions do stick to the hand completely when they run-for our purposes, let’s just leave it this way for now, without the whys, how comes and because
- the running hand should never go below parallel to the floor
- run on the down motion
- run in a forward spiral
- run with a punch-if you run into fook sao you must apply the fook with authority then relax into good position
TAN/BONG/FOOK-The 3 hand laws or pillars
BONG SAO-wing hand, elbow up hand
- the wrist must stay in the same spot in the vertical and horizontal position as it rolls from bong to tan or fook
- the elbow does not go forward or back (cho kiu) ,nor does it go too far outside the gate (fei jiang)
- the elbow up position is transitory, you are truly not suppose to see the elbow for any length of time in combat. At best it should also not be seen from behind when rolling up bong sao should be thought of as a log floating on the water. Push down on one end, the other end goes up-push down in the middle, it rolls to deflect the force
- bong sao’s intent is to move the opponent’s hand off the center, not across the body-the only direction is slightly lateral, not up or down
TAN SAO-palm up hand, spread hand, dispersing hand
- the wrist and elbow are on the same straight line in front of the center, the wrist covers the throat and the elbow covers the heart
- chor kiu occurs when the wrist drops down from the proper position, fei jiang occurs when the elbow flies away from the center toward
- the outer edge of the gate or when it does not return to the center (as in a bad fook sao position)
- you must move the elbow in, not push the wrist out, with the tan sao. The more pressure you put on the opponent’s wrist you give them more information on where your hands are and where your direction of force is pushing them or their hands
- tan sao can be thought of as a place holder so that you can use your other hand to hit, it can be more passive but still alive and sensitive
FOOK SAO-elbow in hand, subdue hand, capture hand
- think of the paw of a dog or fox
- fook sao energy should be forward but relaxed
- the best position for forward energy position is between the throat and CV17-from CV17 to the solar plexus you should be more relaxed but still forward, concentrating on good elbow and wrist position
- in Siu Lim Tao form the radius and ulna can be above one and other with the elbow in (hand and fingers pointing inward)
- in chi sao they must be 45 degrees of each other with the elbow in, this forms the proper tunnel for deflection just by elbow and wrist position (this is why some of you still get hit, even when you do have the correct position as per the form)
- keeping the elbow in protects and defends your center while the wrist puts you in a good position to attack and defend
ELBOW POSITION THEORY
In Bai Jong, all Wing Chun hands should be 100% neutral or 100% potential energy to go in any direction, in motion,50% kinetic energy in any direction (this has nothing to do with speed, but with intent) and then 100% kinetic energy when you’re sure you can hit and not be countered (think of a heat seeking missile) .That range is usually inside the fist and one half elbow distance. The elbow being a fist and one half away pertains to defense, but ideally the hit should land at about that distance for penetration power. The purpose is to straighten the punch inside the opponent. When the elbow is bent, it defends a broader surface area then when the arm is straight. With the elbow “immovable”-if the arm is pulled, the whole body moves forward-if we want to reach our opponent we must step because the elbow doesn’t move-we do!
“Getting in” is not the important thing when you play with an advanced player (Not getting your head handed to you, maybe !) -These are the questions, the more important things-Did you get in with something? (Not Tag Sao, Speed Up Sao or Cheap Shot Sao) , When you wanted to ?, Clean and to the point ?, With technique ?, Horse ?, Timing ?,Control of the opponent ?, Control of the center? If you “got in” with all of the above, then you got in !
Let’s give ‘um something to talk about!
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